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ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

Welcome to This Being Human. I’m your host Abdul Rehman-Malik. On this podcast I talk to extraordinary people from all over the world whose life, ideas and art are shaped by Muslim culture.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

It’s so important for me to be the vessel of whatever it is that’s sending that message and it comes with an urgency.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

Today, an oracle of the Instagram age… Najwa Zebian.

Najwa Zebian is a bestselling writer of poetry, memoir and even a book of advice. But to be honest, I know her most from Instagram, where she shares words of wisdom with her 1.3 million followers.

Her messages are often simple – the type of thing you know deep down, but you can’t quite articulate until you see her write it out. Like her list of 23 things to start doing in 2023, which includes: “Keep the promises you make to yourself”, “Love yourself the way you love your most loved ones” and “Leave the homes you’ve built in other people.”

I often find them coming to me at just the right moment for something I’m going through, or to share with a friend who’s dealing with a struggle in their own life.

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

I get that comment from people where it’s like, I honestly thought you were an author that died like 70 years ago or like, I get that quite often. And I used to hear just from friends and people that I would just get to know, like, you’re a very old soul.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

Writing, and giving advice, is a calling that came to Najwa after a lot of struggle, displacement and soul searching.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

Writing saved my life, and it continues to save my life. Because writing is a way to give myself a voice.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

I called Najwa at her home in London, Ontario, to learn more about the fascinating life of the woman behind the words. Najwa Zebian grew up in Lebanon. She has older siblings, but the age gap is significant, so she spent a lot of time with her parents.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

My dad was very much into history, philosophy and he watched the news all the time and obviously in the background I’m listening to it. And he always listened to, you know, Arabic music that had such deep meaning, like it was all based on poetry. And, you know, but also when I was younger, we lived in a very small village right across from the mosque. And every summer I was enrolled in the summer program at the mosque. And so, we would study the Qur’an and scripture and study the deep meanings and stories behind things. And, you know, there’s a lot of wisdom there. And that’s all I grew up around.

I vividly remember, like distant relatives who were older, when I was 11, 12, 13, telling me like, you’re an adult in a child’s body. Like, you’re so mature. And it’s because I just, I barely spoke. I listened. And when I spoke, it was… it was a reflection of what I thought, mostly my dad would want me to say. So being quiet meant that I internalized so much and never really gave that a chance to be said out loud.

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

So, when her friend gave her a journal as a present for her 13th birthday, it allowed her to access more of herself.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

The first time I wrote in that journal, I felt like… You know how in Harry Potter there is the invisible cloak that you put on and you’re just invisible. I felt like that came off.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK:

That’s right. Yeah. And no one can see you, but you could see everything.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

Exactly. That’s how I felt. So, I felt like that came off. And who was seeing me? Me. No one else. It was my journal. It felt so good the more and more that I wrote.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

Najwa often speaks about the power of looking inwards. Her latest book is about just that – it’s called, Welcome Home,and it’s about finding home within yourself, instead of looking to the outside world or to other people. It’s hard not to read her own life into that. She left Lebanon at 16, to visit relatives in Canada for the summer. And she ended up staying.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN:

I mean, the analogy of home came to me without a connection to leaving Lebanon when I was 16. Like, I wasn’t immediately aware of that connection. But when I think back to what it felt like to move from a place where I felt like I could be myself, I could speak my first language, the culture, the tradition, the way that women dressed, like everything felt like it was safe and comfortable for me. And so, when I moved here at 16, I was wearing the hijab at the time, and I started wearing it when I was really young. But in Lebanon, especially where we lived, more than 50% of the women there wore it. So I didn’t ever stand out. And then when I came here, something was off. Like, I didn’t immediately become aware that I stood out because I think I was still young and naive. And I remember vividly feeling like, well, I’m just going to be me. I don’t care what people think.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

She remembers the day when that feeling changed. She was 19, and she was riding the bus, when she noticed a man watching her.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN:

And then as soon as it was time for him to get off the bus, he looked back at me and he said, “You know, you’re in Canada. You don’t have to dress like that.”

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

Mhm.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN:

And that was the moment that I, it became so clear to me that I stood out and that I’m looked at and that I’m judged. And it made so many experiences that happened before it make sense.

So I just became aware that here I am in a new place where I can’t comfortably be myself. I’m not accepted as I am. And so I feel like a foreigner in a place that I’m now calling home. Right? And so, it wasn’t just Canada at the time. It was also that I had no sense of self-worth or self-esteem, that all I really tried to do was to fit in. So, for example, going to university and working as hard as I could and thinking of what’s the next program I’m going to do, and maybe I can work this odd job and this job. So as time went on and I started building my sense of who I am in school, in degrees, in jobs, in the way that I was perceived by my family and the friend groups that took me in – all of that got me to a place where if I didn’t have any of those things to fit into or belong, because it wasn’t belonging it really was fitting in. Belonging is when you feel seen for who you are. Fitting in is when again you shut off certain parts of you to fit into that place, right?

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

You’ve spoken elsewhere about how there was a point that you stopped writing, especially when you got to Canada. And that seems like a big thing to do, especially when it was such a core part of how you expressed yourself. Why did you stop? And then why did you pick up the pen again, or what led you to pick up the pen again?

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN:

I stopped writing because writing meant feeling and feeling, as beautiful as it was, it was coupled with helplessness. Like, there’s nothing I can do to change this. I was in a new country. Yes, I had visited many times. Yes, I spoke the language perfectly. I didn’t have those struggles that most newcomers have, but it was the displacement, the knowing I was in a new place where I was far away from everything that was familiar to me. But as a 16-year-old, there’s nothing I can do to change that. So, by shutting down the writing, I shut down the feeling and I shut down. I mean, I look at my life back then and it was in black and white for the next several years. As I told you, I just followed what would make my parents proud and what would make me fit into certain groups of people. And it just made me such a high achiever that was miserable on the inside because I didn’t know who I was. I didn’t see value in myself unless I externally received validation of some sort.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

She returned to the written word a few years later, after becoming a teacher. In her first year, a group of eight Libyan refugees were in her class. And they shook something loose in her.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN:

I just remember looking at them and seeing… just knowing the look I had on my face as a 16-year-old coming here was the same look I saw in their faces, and I knew I had to do something about that. There was that activist inside of me was born, I would say, on that day. And I took it upon myself not only to teach them the language and to teach them the new culture and traditions that they’re part of, but also to empower them to believe that they don’t have to fight for a place. They already have one. That they don’t have to prove themselves, they just have to be themselves. That they don’t have to change anything about themselves to fit in like I did, that they already do belong here.  And that’s when the writing started coming and I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again. I do believe that it was at that point that I started healing my 16-year-old self who ripped up her journal and said, I’m never writing again. I’m never feeling again. And so, I was healing with my students. And that year truly changed my life. And those writings, many of them made it into Mind Platter, my very first book. The raw feelings and thoughts and just… It comes through, like you can tell that was a journal, but it was also not too personal. It was very holistic, and it was about life in general. And yeah.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

And there’s a confidence in that book. And you had the confidence to self-publish a book. I mean that in and of itself is something that I think is really worth noting. It’s not like a publisher found you. You must have said to yourself at some point like, this has got to be in the world. I can’t keep this to myself. I got to go.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

I was in a very, very dark place when I put it out there, and I just thought to myself, I have nothing to lose. Like my worst fear was exposure, right? People seeing me for who I am because I didn’t see any value in me. So now that I had started sharing some snippets of those writings on social media and people already knew, this is how Najwa thinks and feels. And I remember where I was sitting exactly in a corner in Starbucks and just saying, you know what, I’m just going to do it. And I started doing the research and on how to self-publish. And I found an editor in the States and just went about the whole process myself. And I didn’t think it would lead me to this place, but it was… At the same time a call for help that it was a courageous, “This is who I am, and I don’t care what anybody thinks of me.” Like it was those two things

coupled that just got me to that point where I just put it out there. And I’m very glad that I did.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER:

Putting herself out there means embracing and exposing everything – not just the positive, but also the types of things that people often want to keep hidden.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN:  

The version of myself that I want everybody to see, you know, the one that’s like really wise and really mature and always does the right thing. That’s a product of my trauma. That’s not really me. If somebody can’t see me fully for who I am, like the good, the bad, the strong, the weak, the vulnerable, the sensitive, the communicative, the person who notices all the little details. If somebody can’t see all of that, then they are not somebody who I want to be seen by.

 

And so, when I sit down to write and a thought or a feeling comes that I consider to be negative, let’s say jealousy because that’s something that many people can relate to. It does you no good to say, I shouldn’t be feeling this. You’re feeling it. So, I befriend that jealousy. I befriend whatever it is that I consider to be negative as opposed to judging it. And when you’re able to befriend that part, like you are not waiting for somebody outside of you to make you feel better about it. You’re not looking for the cure outside of you. You’re doing it internally.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

Najwa, you know, to get to the place that you have, you’ve obviously talked about working through pain and trauma and hurt. And I think all of us know that healing can sometimes be as painful as the trauma or the hurt itself. As we heal, you know, it takes all of us and the full measure of ourselves to bring about that state of moving past trauma. That means that you have to dig into that trauma and that pain a lot. And so, I have to ask you, are you happy?

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

Yes. I’m at peace. I’m at a place in my life where if you ask me if I’m happy and content with where I am in my journey, I am over-the-moon with where I am in my journey. But it doesn’t mean that I wake up every morning and I’m like, it’s a beautiful day and I’m not thinking I have no struggles. I absolutely do. And for anybody listening, if your struggle is to be heard, to be seen, to be valued, to be validated, to be able to be yourself without worrying about what people think of you, be proud of yourself.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

You know, a few years ago, your decision to stop wearing the hijab caused quite a stir on social media. And I know you’ve had to deal with a lot of painful and difficult conversations around that. And now that’s past. But I wonder, what does it mean to live in your body as a person of faith without those comfortable external markers of faith?

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

Wow. I’ll tell you this. I’ve never felt more like myself than I do right now. I loved the part of my life where I wore the hijab. And I love the part of my life where I don’t wear it because letting it go was part of my journey to understanding how I truly see myself and what I value the most in myself. You’re raised in a way to believe that if you wear it, then you’re better than others. And when I asked myself, Is that true? I don’t believe that’s true at all. And so really, a big part of why I wore it was to please the world around me and to say, I am closer to God than other people. And so, when I started reflecting more deeply on that, I was like, That’s not true. And I know people are listening saying, “Well, who are you to say all of this?” Because I still get comments from people saying, “Well, you shouldn’t deter people from doing what God asks them to do just because of the way that you think.” I’m not deterring anybody from anything. My mom wears the hijab, my sister wears the hijab. As long as a woman chooses to wear it, I’m on her side. To be quite honest with you, I was always cornered into that definition. Any time that I would be introduced, they would say, “She is a Muslim woman who did blah, blah, blah.” And I’m like, That’s not… I know some people would love to be defined that way. But to me, I want it to be somebody who was making a difference in the world for everyone, not just for people who follow the same faith. Most of the people that come to me, don’t tell me I’m Muslim or I can tell from their names that there are very diverse nationalities and religions. And we all have that same experience of wanting to be seen for who we are. And a big part of me taking it off got me to a point where I’m like, If I want people to see me for who I am, then I have to be who I am and live by what I believe for myself before I can say, “See me.”

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

As we sometimes grow in spiritual confidence and we grow into ourselves as we are, we become more open to those who think differently, believe differently to us, because we’re not threatened by them. So much of what you’ve described, that sense of criticism that you received, seems to come from those who outwardly seem very confident in their religion. But actually, once you start to stress test it a bit and push them and nudge them, you realize, oh, you’ve got as many questions as the next person does. You’re dealing with the same things. And faith is a part of that, right? A part of, a part of processing that.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

Also being accepting of others for who they are is a big part of our faith. Like even people who don’t identify the same way. For me when somebody comes and says, “You’re doing something wrong. Shame on you. Like your parents must be so proud.” They say it that way. I’m like, you are trying to shame a human being, when I’ve read so many verses and hadiths that say things like, “Don’t judge another person on their journey just because they’re sinning differently from you.”

 

I, for the first time in my life, had to face criticism that I never faced before. And I was put at the intersection of do I go back on my decision to be seen a certain way, or do I stick to my decision to see myself as I am for my heart, for my goodness, for my actions, for all the difference that I’m trying to make in the world. I actually have said this in the past, in a conversation to my mom where I said, looking from the outside in, you see someone who’s successful, independent, she’s done so much in school. She’s written these many books. She’s done this, she’s done that. And I feel like all you see is that you wish I dressed differently. And that was, I believe, a very powerful moment for her, because it became clear to her like, oh, wow. Because even though she does see everything else, she stresses about that one thing, right? And no judgment to her. It’s obviously based on how she was raised, and she believes that, you know, you should dress a certain way to be modest. And obviously she’s watching out for me. But when I said it that way, like that’s all you see, it’s like all these other things are in a little tiny pile. And then there’s the mountain of how you dress. And so I said, I wish you would see all of the other things.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

Najwa, tell me about a moment of either joy or meanness that’s come to you as an unexpected visitor.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

So, a couple of days ago, I received an email for this speaking engagement that I was really excited about, and it’s with the government. And the email said that, you know, we move to the final stages and you’re still on our list. And I felt so much joy in my heart, like my chest felt like it opened up. But I was working on another project at the same time that I was like stressing out about finishing on time. And this feeling of expansion in my chest was like telling me, feel me. Like spend some time with me. So, I closed my laptop. And I just sat there and started taking and deep breaths and saying how grateful I was for having the ability to feel this feeling and for having it visit me and be part of me. And I sat with it for like 10 minutes. And I felt so good for the rest of the day.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK: 

Najwa Zebian, thank you so much for being on This Being Human.

 

NAJWA ZEBIAN: 

Thank you for having me.

 

ABDUL-REHMAN MALIK VOICEOVER: 

Thank you for listening to This Being Human. You can follow Najwa Zebian on Instagram @najwazebian. Her most recent book is called Welcome Home.

 

This Being Human is produced by Antica Productions in partnership with TVO. Our senior producer is Kevin Sexton. Our associate producer is Hailey Choi. Our executive producer is Lisa Gabriele. Stuart Coxe is the president of Antica Productions. Mixing and sound design by Phil Wilson. Original music by Boombox Sound.

 

Shaghayegh Tajvidi is TVO’s Managing Editor of Digital Video and Podcasts. Laurie Few is the executive for digital at TVO.

 

Through the arts, the Aga Khan Museum sparks wonder, curiosity, and understanding of Muslim cultures and civilizations. For more information about the museum go to www.agakhanmuseum.org.

 

The Museum wishes to thank The Hilary and Galen Weston Foundation for their generous support of This Being Human.